Wednesday, November 19, 2008

Why is society so dumb?

My brother and his partner have outlasted MOST heterosexual relationships!! I find it to be an abomination that they can't wed! They've been together over 30 years!

When are we going to STOP extinguishing the ember of LOVE?


Jim said...

Attitudes are changing with each passing generation. I think in 4 to 8 years, those propositions and bans will be overturned once and for all.

Angie ^i^ said...

We've looked at your opinions (predictions) Jim, from 4 years ago (via blog writings), and they've come true!! I hope that in 4 years we'll look at the statement that you just wrote here and see it to be true as well.

Sue said...

Wow, Angie. This took my breath away. I'd not seen this spot before.

Homosexuality and abortion are two subjects that I just can't talk about briefly. There's just so much to it and it's so complex and I can go on and on.

But Amendment 2, I think I can capsulize. I voted No, although I do think marriage should be defined as being between a man and a woman exclusively. Even so, I did not support the amendment because the rest of it was hateful and I'd rather not sweat the marriage definition if it means shutting down civil unions and doing all the things Keith Olberman talked about in your post here.

My suggestion and what I'd like to see happen is to retain that important word "marriage" for heterosexual unions because of the traditional and religious reasons so many people attach to marriage. I think it's smart politics NOT to discount that tradition, no matter how much we love our gay friends and relatives.
Then we can propose an amendment which defines "civil unions" as being between same sex couples, and confer ALL the same legal rights on civil unions. Every single legal, probate, property...all the rights. BUT, proactively and visibly retain the "marriage" word as I said earlier.

I had a conversation a couple of months ago about this with a gay girl who was manning an Amendment 2 booth at a festival in Tallahassee. I told her I was voting No, but we talked about my views and she agreed with me. Trouble is...we need to get the right group to draft an amendment with the right language - not one stacked against the gay community the way this one was.

Don't you think that would have a better chance of passing? Yes, it's simply a "war of semantics" as Olberman said, but when you're dealing with the public at large who don't even read the amendment, I think this could work. This suggestion even appeared a few days ago on Andrew Sullivan's blog (he's a gay writer) and he seemed to think it was o.k.

Well, I've done it again and blathered on. So much for capsulizing. I just can't do it on these topics. Sorry

Angie ^i^ said...

Amendment 2 wasn't just about homosexual couples (as I'm sure you know), it was also about heterosexual couples who choose not to wed. Amendment 2 didn't give gays the right to wed, it just gave them the right to be acknowledged as a couple. It's a shame really. We all know that even though that amendment was passed, heterosexual couples won't be harmed... yet gays STILL will.

I appreciate your opinion and your viewpoint Sue. I do agree that your suggestion (worded correctly), could possibly be passed with ease with more ease than how Amendment 2 was worded (though I do think those religious groups who shun homosexuality would still refuse to vote yes on it).

Here of course, is where we'll probably forever disagree. Being gay isn't a choice! God loves all his children. Why discriminate against two people who are in love, and choose to make a life long commitment to each other, just because they're of the same gender? I don't get it. I see people like Brittany Spears make a mockery of marriage! It's like a game to some! It's not taken seriously! Then you come across two people like my brother and his partner who truly know what commitment and love is, yet they're not allowed to join each other in wedlock because it's so "sacred" and should only be between a man and a woman.

It's funny. The Gays who desire marriage are in it with their partner for the long haul. Look at the divorce rate in heterosexual marriages... I tend to think the divorce rate between gay couples would be almost non existent because they'd take those vows seriously and to heart!

Now, since I'm on the divorce rant.. there are valid reasons to divorce! "We just grew apart" though isn't one of them ~ yet this seems to be the reason many split! I personally took my vows seriously, but til death do us part wasn't going to be the death of me or one of my children!

Be as wordy as you like Sue!! It's appreciated! I'm passionate about this topic as well (and there are a few others out there that bring my wordiness out). LOL

It's all good.. even when we DO disagree!

Jim said...

It sounds like you two are pretty close together on this issue. You both opposed the amendment, as I would have if I had been living in Florida. The word "marriage" is what all this hinges on and where most people get caught up and I understand both arguments. I started to dive into that but I think it's just better for me to say again that attitudes are definitely changing and that I'm positive that it's just a matter of a few years until these bans will be overturned and we'll move on past the point where this is a wedge issue.

Sue said...

Dang. I just wrote a good comment and the whole thing just disappeared!
Angie, I don't think we disagree much at all. We'll talk sometime because I can't write it all again.

But one thing I said was this isn't just discrimination against gay couples, but any couple not in a traditional marriage. I'm happily single and will likely stay that way. What if I have a close friend of either sex as I get older and we decide we want to commit to each other as helpmates, caregivers, inheriters, co-owners...or whatever. And say we decide to share a house. I should be able to do that with whomever I choose and we should be able operate with the same legal authority as a married person.

Angie ^i^ said...

Sue ~ I hate when I type comments and they go POOF!!

Sue & Jim ~ you both are right, we don't disagree on much at all!

When will the discrimination end? =(